Comments on: The Top 10 Graphic Novels of All Time. Good to Get that Settled http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/ Tech, Games, Comics, Movies. We Promise Not to Tell. Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:37:21 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: djtrudeau http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-609 djtrudeau Wed, 11 Mar 2009 02:16:20 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-609 I happen to love top 10 lists because 1) the debates that follow and 2) it's a good way to steer people towards some great stuff. In terms of what makes a graphic novel, I think you have to make the definition simply a book length comic book story that is self contained (has a beginning, middle, and end). Whether the characters had stories before or after is besides the point. So The Dark Phoenix Saga is a graphic novel, but a collection of classic Jack Cole Plastic Man stories is not. To the guy that picked Dropsie Avenue and Last Day in Vietnam as the Eisner examples; it's nice to finally have someone completely agree with me. In terms of Moore, I think if Miracleman could be more widely read it would be as praised, if not more, than Watchmen. I don't think I took a breath through the whole third volume. I don't know why From Hell isn't mentioned as much as a top Moore GN, though, as I think it might be his best work. I happen to love top 10 lists because 1) the debates that follow and 2) it's a good way to steer people towards some great stuff.

In terms of what makes a graphic novel, I think you have to make the definition simply a book length comic book story that is self contained (has a beginning, middle, and end). Whether the characters had stories before or after is besides the point. So The Dark Phoenix Saga is a graphic novel, but a collection of classic Jack Cole Plastic Man stories is not.

To the guy that picked Dropsie Avenue and Last Day in Vietnam as the Eisner examples; it's nice to finally have someone completely agree with me.

In terms of Moore, I think if Miracleman could be more widely read it would be as praised, if not more, than Watchmen. I don't think I took a breath through the whole third volume. I don't know why From Hell isn't mentioned as much as a top Moore GN, though, as I think it might be his best work.

]]> By: dennitzio http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-608 dennitzio Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:17:24 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-608 Top (#) lists are fascinating to me. They have taken on this facade of the Aristotelian expert-list, something that magically summarizes the unconscious minds of millions of readers/viewers/listeners/etc. Yet as Lev's post shows, they're really made by a bunch of guys (euphemistically speaking) making the same kind of decisions we would if asked for our own top (#) lists. And, in the end, no matter how much we say we like these because they introduce us to work we don't know, isn't this really all an exercise in confirmation bias? Top (#) lists are fascinating to me. They have taken on this facade of the Aristotelian expert-list, something that magically summarizes the unconscious minds of millions of readers/viewers/listeners/etc. Yet as Lev's post shows, they're really made by a bunch of guys (euphemistically speaking) making the same kind of decisions we would if asked for our own top (#) lists. And, in the end, no matter how much we say we like these because they introduce us to work we don't know, isn't this really all an exercise in confirmation bias?

]]> By: niobe23 http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-605 niobe23 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:02:13 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-605 I'd have to put Preacher on there as well. And Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. And something from Bendis, but it would be hare to choose, since he does, like, everything. I'd have to put Preacher on there as well. And Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. And something from Bendis, but it would be hare to choose, since he does, like, everything.

]]> By: Rorschach http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-604 Rorschach Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:31:36 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-604 I just picked up Y: The Last Man, so I'm glad to see it in the discussion. . I want to read Miracleman so badly. I suck at finding things that are hard to find. . Re: Graphic Novel vs Comic, I was disappointed not to see a better definition here, because I keep having to answer that question and I can't come up with anything better than "It's more serious, longer, and has original characters." Dark Knight Returns wouldn't meet that definition. I just picked up Y: The Last Man, so I'm glad to see it in the discussion.
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I want to read Miracleman so badly. I suck at finding things that are hard to find.
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Re: Graphic Novel vs Comic, I was disappointed not to see a better definition here, because I keep having to answer that question and I can't come up with anything better than "It's more serious, longer, and has original characters." Dark Knight Returns wouldn't meet that definition.

]]> By: tovesunden http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-603 tovesunden Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:19:04 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-603 The "something by Will Eisner" should have been Dropsie Avenue, maybe, or Last day in Vietnam. The "something by Will Eisner" should have been Dropsie Avenue, maybe, or Last day in Vietnam.

]]> By: pcduchateau http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-602 pcduchateau Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:19:27 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-602 How about something from FABLES..? Hard to pick just one issue but I think its the best current title out there. Also, Justice League: The New Frontier. Next to Miller and Moore, probably my favorite Super-Hero comic of all time. How about something from FABLES..? Hard to pick just one issue but I think its the best current title out there. Also, Justice League: The New Frontier. Next to Miller and Moore, probably my favorite Super-Hero comic of all time.

]]> By: Brew http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-601 Brew Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:06:04 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-601 @Church: You should look at the 100 best novels list. It's easy to differentiate between Lev's picks and the other guy's. Lev picked relatively well-known yet non-mainstream yet influential books. The other guy picked the stuff you had to read in HS. But yeah there's a bajillion windows you have to go through (well 100). @Church: You should look at the 100 best novels list. It's easy to differentiate between Lev's picks and the other guy's. Lev picked relatively well-known yet non-mainstream yet influential books. The other guy picked the stuff you had to read in HS. But yeah there's a bajillion windows you have to go through (well 100).

]]> By: Lev Grossman http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-600 Lev Grossman Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:00:39 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-600 Yeah, it's a pretty non-rigorous distinction that I approached pragmatically, meaning however I felt like it. Some of these were specifically written as extended, one-volume novel-like comix (ie like Tintin or Maus or Fun Home). Then others weren't. Basically if a publisher ever chooses to collect a particular arc of a comic into a single volume, it magically becomes a graphic novel. HOw's that for arbitrary. Yeah, it's a pretty non-rigorous distinction that I approached pragmatically, meaning however I felt like it. Some of these were specifically written as extended, one-volume novel-like comix (ie like Tintin or Maus or Fun Home). Then others weren't. Basically if a publisher ever chooses to collect a particular arc of a comic into a single volume, it magically becomes a graphic novel. HOw's that for arbitrary.

]]> By: Kemper http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-599 Kemper Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:59:55 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-599 jeffk has an interesting point. I tend to think that ones like Sandman, Preacher or Y:Last Man are graphic novels because they tell a story with a beginning, middle and end even if they were originally monthly comics. So you can read the whole story in a volume or collected set. . But if you read the X-Men's Dark Phoenix trade paper-back, does that count as 'graphic novel'? I tend to want to lump that into a 'classic storyline' rather than 'graphic novel' category just because the X-Men are still going on. But then I always think of Dark Knight Returns as graphic novel rather than just a 'classic story' even though Batman is an on-going comic. And where should The Killing Joke be classified? Arrgghhh! The perils of fanboy classification! jeffk has an interesting point. I tend to think that ones like Sandman, Preacher or Y:Last Man are graphic novels because they tell a story with a beginning, middle and end even if they were originally monthly comics. So you can read the whole story in a volume or collected set.
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But if you read the X-Men's Dark Phoenix trade paper-back, does that count as 'graphic novel'? I tend to want to lump that into a 'classic storyline' rather than 'graphic novel' category just because the X-Men are still going on. But then I always think of Dark Knight Returns as graphic novel rather than just a 'classic story' even though Batman is an on-going comic. And where should The Killing Joke be classified? Arrgghhh! The perils of fanboy classification!

]]> By: jeffk http://techland.com/2009/03/09/the-top-10-graphic-novels-of-all-time-good-to-get-that-settled/comment-page-1/#comment-598 jeffk Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:45:43 +0000 http://nerdworld.blogs.time.com/?p=1171#comment-598 @Church Would you say every Green Lantern or X-Men or Buffy trade is a graphic novel? Does an entire series "become" a graphic novel when it concludes and is collected in its entirety? I'm just asking Lev about his criteria. There are plenty of creators (Dash Shaw, Craig Thompson, Anders Nilsen, etc.) who are doing long-form comics that are graphic novels in the most literal sense, and serialized works like Black Hole certainly seem to fit the description too. But the Lynda Barry book, the Achewood collection, Y: The Last Man, and Sandman? I'm not so sure. @Church

Would you say every Green Lantern or X-Men or Buffy trade is a graphic novel? Does an entire series "become" a graphic novel when it concludes and is collected in its entirety? I'm just asking Lev about his criteria.

There are plenty of creators (Dash Shaw, Craig Thompson, Anders Nilsen, etc.) who are doing long-form comics that are graphic novels in the most literal sense, and serialized works like Black Hole certainly seem to fit the description too. But the Lynda Barry book, the Achewood collection, Y: The Last Man, and Sandman? I'm not so sure.

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